Best Player You've Played Against

[Hitzel]

I feel like the way you achieve victory depends if its honorable.
A man can become rich by selling himself out, and stepping on everyone who ever showed him kindness in order to get ahead. He could betray his mother and father, lie to his friends, and become assistant to a CEO just so he can steal company secrets and create his own company. He indeed did win, but not in a honorable fashion.

This isn't real life, it's a game that know nothing but winning, losing, and drawing. There is no selling out, no family to betray, no friends to lie to, no fortunes to own - none of that. There are no civic virtues in a game, only military virtues. Don't get hung up on things outside of the game, because they don't matter. The game allows them, so you must learn to allow them too.

Tell me, how would you feel if people placed nothing but Jack in the Box Claymores at all the spawn points on the map and waiting for you to spawn only to shoot you in the head and spam with rockets the minute you spawn. It's all done in the spirit of "In it to win it" but it no longer becomes fun to play against. Cheap ruins most.

Okay, let's look at your trap example. Let's say that spawn traps become the way to win in this game. Okay, I can see that. Here's the problem though - I feel you're describing it in a situation where one team is playing to win and the other is not. Yeah, that sucks (no matter what strategy is dominant, it's a problem with this game's matchmaking), but what happens when BOTH teams are playing to win?

In your situation, one team wants to win engagements in a way that allows for spawn trapping for as long as they can keep the trap going. Makes sense. But the strategy doesn't end there. Players are going to want to find ways to prevent or stop the traps, then also find ways to prevent the preventing so they can keep trapping, and so on, and so on.

Eventually, players are going to be "pushed" to find strategies that make the concept of spawn trapping seem wholesome and fair - and the cycle will continue. Players will explore the game's depth and push the game forward. That's real strategy.

But anyway, a good clean game is what I like to see. A nice fair game where skilled people fight other skilled people. Sure you can mess around, its a game, its suppose to be fun. But when you have people who only care about winning and not about having fun, it ruins a lot. Suddenly you have people doing dirty stuff. People taking advantage over novice players. Using exploits in the game to get ahead. Using the cheapest of weapons just because its easy and gets you a lot of points.

It's just an opinion. A great player is someone who gave me a chance, and not only defeated me, but everyone else in a fight. Hell, a great player is someone who fights fair.

I think that playing to win like I described above is way more fun than playing with an arm tied behind my back. Being a part of a game's evolution is awesome, and being able to consistently beat strong opponents is even more awesome.

Who is a strong player? A strong player someone who consistently wins against all others. A strong player will not give you a chance, and he will do every legal move that the game allows in order to win. I have no respect for someone who plays by made-up rules to follow some kind of "honor" and holds himself back (I mean this as a player, I don't lose respect for anyone as a person based on how they play a videogame).

All that being said, what is NOT awesome is a team of 6 hardcore guys vs a team of 6 random newbies playing the demo. That happens WAY too much in this game, and it's a problem that must be solved.

This all brings me back to the point I keep making about Motivator camping. Motivator camping just happens to be the "now" thing. Just like your spawn trap example, the community needs to start applying tactics to stop camping, to stop the stopping, etc so this game can move forward. I know how to beat it, and I've been trying to guide people in the right direction for a while now, but everyone's content to just complain about it instead of trying to win and I'm usually flamed for being a 'booster' or something dumb like that. If the community at large allows the game to stagnate here at the camping stage, then the community deserves all the problems it faces because of it.

However, if people start adopting the Motivator as part of the game and use it along with other tactics and tools to move the game forward, they deserve all the fun and awesomeness that comes with it. Have you ever been in a game where both teams are working together with healers, strong slayers and sneaky flanks? That's the most fun I've had with a shooter in a LONG time because of how much strategy and teamwork takes place.

Over time, this community is bound to mature to the point where every game is full of people knowing what they are doing, and it's going to be awesome. The issue that needs to be overcome now is getting the newbies to learn how to play now so they don't leave before they've learned. If the community can do that, this game will have a bright future. If it can't, than this game will have a dangerously low population by next year. I personally will stick around for that, because I want to play this game at a high level no matter the size of the community, but we should still do our best to make the community grow.

I've got to leave for work now, but I'm interested to see what everyone here thinks random people can do to beat camping and make it less popular.

[FROmatoe]

This isn't real life, it's a game that know nothing but winning, losing, and drawing. There is no selling out, no family to betray, no friends to lie to, no fortunes to own - none of that. There are no civic virtues in a game, only military virtues. Don't get hung up on things outside of the game, because they don't matter. The game allows them, so you must learn to allow them too.
It was an example of why winning isn't always honorable.
People can do things in games to achieve top of the scoreboard points and MVP and whatnot but not actually be the person in the game who was most reactive, helpful, and skillful. You get it, just an example.


Okay, let's look at your trap example. Let's say that spawn traps become the way to win in this game. Okay, I can see that. Here's the problem though - I feel you're describing it in a situation where one team is playing to win and the other is not. Yeah, that sucks (no matter what strategy is dominant, it's a problem with this game's matchmaking), but what happens when BOTH teams are playing to win?

In your situation, one team wants to win engagements in a way that allows for spawn trapping for as long as they can keep the trap going. Makes sense. But the strategy doesn't end there. Players are going to want to find ways to prevent or stop the traps, then also find ways to prevent the preventing so they can keep trapping, and so on, and so on.

Eventually, players are going to be "pushed" to find strategies that make the concept of spawn trapping seem wholesome and fair - and the cycle will continue. Players will explore the game's depth and push the game forward. That's real strategy.
It applies to a game where both teams want to win also. If so, then the main strategy becomes "who can spawncamp the other team before it happens to them." Which really isn't fun to fight against, even if you planned to do it to the other team first.

But think about it. If both two teams are playing a serious match with the intention to win, isn't that called competitive? Is it not true the competitive scenes of any game follow a type of rules that prevent people from using cheap and unfair strategies? Competitive usually houses "the best of the best." If a competitive ruleset has to ban lots of content from the game just to have a structured game, is everything balanced? Is it fair? Just food for thought.

I think that playing to win like I described above is way more fun than playing with an arm tied behind my back. Being a part of a game's evolution is awesome, and being able to consistently beat strong opponents is even more awesome.

Who is a strong player? A strong player someone who consistently wins against all others. A strong player will not give you a chance, and he will do every legal move that the game allows in order to win. I have no respect for someone who plays by made-up rules to follow some kind of "honor" and holds himself back (I mean this as a player, I don't lose respect for anyone as a person based on how they play a videogame).

All that being said, what is NOT awesome is a team of 6 hardcore guys vs a team of 6 random newbies playing the demo. That happens WAY too much in this game, and it's a problem that must be solved.

This all brings me back to the point I keep making about Motivator camping. Motivator camping just happens to be the "now" thing. Just like your spawn trap example, the community needs to start applying tactics to stop camping, to stop the stopping, etc so this game can move forward. I know how to beat it, and I've been trying to guide people in the right direction for a while now, but everyone's content to just complain about it instead of trying to win and I'm usually flamed for being a 'booster' or something dumb like that. If the community at large allows the game to stagnate here at the camping stage, then the community deserves all the problems it faces because of it.

However, if people start adopting the Motivator as part of the game and use it along with other tactics and tools to move the game forward, they deserve all the fun and awesomeness that comes with it. Have you ever been in a game where both teams are working together with healers, strong slayers and sneaky flanks? That's the most fun I've had with a shooter in a LONG time because of how much strategy and teamwork takes place.

Over time, this community is bound to mature to the point where every game is full of people knowing what they are doing, and it's going to be awesome. The issue that needs to be overcome now is getting the newbies to learn how to play now so they don't leave before they've learned. If the community can do that, this game will have a bright future. If it can't, than this game will have a dangerously low population by next year. I personally will stick around for that, because I want to play this game at a high level no matter the size of the community, but we should still do our best to make the community grow.

I've got to leave for work now, but I'm interested to see what everyone here thinks random people can do to beat camping and make it less popular.

A lot of games don't mature. Because people like to abuse what's easy. Its human nature. People will abuse and abuse until something bad happens and then it will be too late. The evidence is everywhere, even outside of games. You get people who think they can do what they want, and sure, you can do what you want. You are your own individual person but you do have a responsibility to keep things in a balance. To be respectful and whatnot. It's not like I nor anyone can control you or anyone else. However one thing. Since people cannot control themselves. Usually, administrative figures take control by force. If this game breeds only camping, spamming, and unfair gameplay, it is partly the developers fault for not changing it.

[Olessius]

A lot of games don't mature. Because people like to abuse what's easy. Its human nature. People will abuse and abuse until something bad happens and then it will be too late. The evidence is everywhere, even outside of games. You get people who think they can do what they want, and sure, you can do what you want. You are your own individual person but you do have a responsibility to keep things in a balance. To be respectful and whatnot. It's not like I nor anyone can control you or anyone else. However one thing. Since people cannot control themselves. Usually, administrative figures take control by force. If this game breeds only camping, spamming, and unfair gameplay, it is partly the developers fault for not changing it.

This. Also, I always (but not lately, been slumpin') play to win, but what you (Hitzel) seem to be describing is total war. I play to win a game, not a war.

[VainCougar]

Damn guys chill with the essays lol

[Impostah]

YO, GUYS, COVER MY SIX. ROCKET SPAM THEM NIGHTWING. SUICIDE TO MAKE SURE THEY CAN'T GET KILLZ. BETA DOG, YOU ON THE HEALTH STATION CAMPIN'? AW **** YEAH. WE GONNA PWN THIS SO HARD.

FOR THE WIN, GAME IS SRS BIZINZ. ALPHA TEAM GO, LET LOOSE THE MIGHTIES.

MLGMLGMLGMLG

ahem.

[Siren]

Damn guys chill with the essays lol

LOL!
-cookie*

(ﾉ◕ヮ◕)ﾉ*:･ﾟ✧ *:･ﾟ✧*:･ﾟ

YO, GUYS, COVER MY SIX. ROCKET SPAM THEM NIGHTWING. SUICIDE TO MAKE SURE THEY CAN'T GET KILLZ. BETA DOG, YOU ON THE HEALTH STATION CAMPIN'? AW **** YEAH. WE GONNA PWN THIS SO HARD.

FOR THE WIN, GAME IS SRS BIZINZ. ALPHA TEAM GO, LET LOOSE THE MIGHTIES.

MLGMLGMLGMLG

ahem.

AWW UH WE CN SO DO DIS!! FK U CHEEP PLAYA YH U SUK U GAY FK UUUU!! I SO MUCH BETTAH THEN JUICE


theycanteven

[Akrium]

Many countries wouldn't be here today as we know it if they didn't change the rules of engagement.. also known as being cheap/lame/noobish/not having honor. People can murder people in front of us.. but if they do not fire upon us.. we cannot do anything to stop it. Seems stupid right.. but someone decided we cannot act on others actions all the time. You can have honor.. but leave it to your word is your honor. Time and time again history has shown us that honor nets you more losses and pain than wins and glory. History is written by those that come out ahead.

Also note that "honor" is just a word. What it means changes from person to person. It is not a world fact that is all knowing and all truthful. Some ppl cry about ppl using TDs, or gliders as not honorable than use the persuader themselves.. which others feel is not honorable. Or someone snipes.. which some consider not honorable. Some feel using the NSB is not honorable and cheap. People need to get over this honor ****.. this game is about builds, counters, and skill to back it up. Nothing is cheap or lame, only annoying. I've played games where I had negative k:d ratios.. it happens. I still had fun though.

Gamers today are split into basically 2 fractions of ppl on how they enjoy a game. Some enjoy the game for the sake of it being a game. It is fun to just play it. Others must win to enjoy it.. thus turning the game into a job. So unless they are winning.. it isn't fun. These are the same people that get too serious because they feel they are losing out on something. My enjoyment is NOT based on anyone's actions in game, but only my own actions in the game.

[Akuzuma]

Many countries wouldn't be here today as we know it if they didn't change the rules of engagement.. also known as being cheap/lame/noobish/not having honor. People can murder people in front of us.. but if they do not fire upon us.. we cannot do anything to stop it. Seems stupid right.. but someone decided we cannot act on others actions all the time. You can have honor.. but leave it to your word is your honor. Time and time again history has shown us that honor nets you more losses and pain than wins and glory. History is written by those that come out ahead.

Also note that "honor" is just a word. What it means changes from person to person. It is not a world fact that is all knowing and all truthful. Some ppl cry about ppl using TDs, or gliders as not honorable than use the persuader themselves.. which others feel is not honorable. Or someone snipes.. which some consider not honorable. Some feel using the NSB is not honorable and cheap. People need to get over this honor ****.. this game is about builds, counters, and skill to back it up. Nothing is cheap or lame, only annoying. I've played games where I had negative k:d ratios.. it happens. I still had fun though.

Gamers today are split into basically 2 fractions of ppl on how they enjoy a game. Some enjoy the game for the sake of it being a game. It is fun to just play it. Others must win to enjoy it.. thus turning the game into a job. So unless they are winning.. it isn't fun. These are the same people that get too serious because they feel they are losing out on something. My enjoyment is NOT based on anyone's actions in game, but only my own actions in the game.

There is no counter to hard target + body armor ><

[Akrium]

There is no counter to hard target + body armor ><

pen ammo for the body armor =D

hard target and thick headed are in to help certain body types last a bit longer if they so choose. but not required to play the body type. I know you know this.. goof =p

[Tirany]

YO, GUYS, COVER MY SIX. ROCKET SPAM THEM NIGHTWING. SUICIDE TO MAKE SURE THEY CAN'T GET KILLZ. BETA DOG, YOU ON THE HEALTH STATION CAMPIN'? AW **** YEAH. WE GONNA PWN THIS SO HARD.

FOR THE WIN, GAME IS SRS BIZINZ. ALPHA TEAM GO, LET LOOSE THE MIGHTIES.

MLGMLGMLGMLG

ahem.

aight lez go. im pro 2