overpowered, overplayed, best class/weapon, please nerf!?!?! =(

[Rebel_Raven]

Truth be told, for someone who uses the goggles ( from your sig ) I'd think you'd have much less problems with dive bombers... especially since they seem to 'flock' on you. , etc

Yep, they flock to me, coz I exclusively play Nimble. Why? Better jumps, and that's my gender. I'm not budging on that. Being nimble, I'm an appealing target with low HP. I'ev seen people ignore other targets coz they're looking for me. I've been multi-bombed coz they wanna kill me -real- bad.

Oh, yes, I've mastered Goggles, litterally. I know how to use them really well. But I, liking variety, and wanting to try for other completions before I reach 100 in less than 20 levels, don't use them all the time. The game'll get boring if I have to use goggles in every match with a glider user in it which is near all of them.
I'm exploring other ways to counter the gliders with gadgets on top of that, like spring shoes! it takes some timing to litterally jump out of their way, but it's not that bad 1 on 1.

Shoot the gliders out of the sky... with what? Am I missing something? Is there a weapon that has the accuracy, reach, and DPS potential to shoot them, a fast moving target with a lot of HP, and bullet resistance, out of the sky before they bomb me without me being some uber l33t marksman? Coz I'm not an uber l33t marksman. I've said this many times. If I gotta rely on shooting the mooks out of the sky, then I'm good, and truely screwed. On top of that, my hit detection is spotty at the worst possible moments.

I think a lot of people aren't going to be expert marksman blasting a glider out of the sky. It's not as valid as you'd like to think coz it's not something everyone can do. It's not all that easy. I've tried, honestly.

Beleive it or not, I've missed with the boomerang when there was nothing between me and the dive bomber but air on many occassions, even with lock on! If they're moving in certain directions (I.E. towards you), you'll prolly miss coz they're going fast enough to not be in the boomerang's way. Hard Headed negates the boomerang pretty much.

Hatchet? I'm sorry, you're mistaking me for someone with excellent accuracy despite my claims otherwise? They may be large, but they're fast in the air. Swatting a dive bomber out of the air with a hatchet sounds like a losing proposition to me. Further it only deals with -1- dive bomber.

ASD? They BOMB THROUGH IT. They shouldn't, they really shouldn't. They fly over it. They shouldn't which is ironic since it's supposed to deny airspace! It poses a laughable risk coz while stunned they can still fight, and have better odds of surviving it than people do their dive bomb.

" And many of these points in different maps are indoors anyway, thus safe from dive bombers. "

A few points are indoors in fumigation in general. Most aren't. There's #3 in amusement mile, #2 in Docks, #2 in 25th floor, #3, and #1 in Ace chemical, nothing indoors in Crime Alley, then there's none indoors in gotham power.

In PW, the machines are almost always outside in my experience save for one in Amusement Mile. I'm not as familiar with PW coz I don't play it often.

And yes, people will bomb into either point, and start blasting after they've likely killed someone. They may, or may not die, but that's not the point. The fact is they've easily killed someone, and are killing more.

They may have to deal with poor connections, but it's rare that it seems to stop them from killing someone.

As for getting close, I don't know how else I'm going to complete close range kills with the persuader. If I stayed away from every mighty in every game, well, I don't think I'll be working on my close range kills very often.

And again, their dive bombs AOE. They don't need a direct hit to kill, and when they're popped into the air, and are coming down the instant they think they can hit you, you don't have a lot of reaction time.

@ STFUppercut

"Ive pretty well stopped responding to this thread because its almost turned into what it was meant to destroy. "This is overpowered/not fair makes me sad debate". The point of this thread is not to establish which builds are "annoying". "

I miscommunicated. If you want to make all the nerf threads going away, you're not doign that great of a job at it.

And YES! FFS I AM NOT A GREAT PLAYER! And honestly, you're disregarding the valid input from people who aren't all that good enough to blast a glider out of the sky! Relying on shooting people, especially people with a lot of hp, and a lot of defense (including speed), especially if they're remotely close, out of the sky is not the best policy for people that aren't expert gunners.

When dive bombers bomb through/into ASD and kill someone, I'd say ASD is broken, and less than viable to stop a dive bomb. They should not do damage by going into/through the radius of the ASD coz it should stun them and interrupt the dive. Am I right in this? Coz there's no point if the ASD doesn't stop a dive bomb that started well outside it's radius. And what good is it if people can fly/trampoline over it?

So 1 person can only counter 1 person. Right. I truely have no counter, then.
Good luck getting a bunch of randoms to deploy Anti-air to help counter all the bombers. Likely coz the ASD is faulty in it's advertized task as it denies very little airspace, and lets people dive on through for the kill before they get stunned, if they get stunned.
If 1 person can't counter 2 bombers, or more, then odds are they've already lost thanks to a lack of team cohesion.

While you may be looking at 1 vs 1, I'm looking at many scenarios. It's really rare when it's ever truely 1 vs 1 since there's 5 other people, and often times you'll get ganged up on. Focusing on 1 vs 1 is folly, IMO since more often than not there's someone else around that corner looking to waste you while you're busy. I tend to look at things as me being outnumbered what with me being a lone person trying to counter multiple flyers while everyone else on my team can't be bothered.

"Gliders not being used by skilled players" in that context, I was being sarcastic. You didn't read all of what I was saying there. Ironically this is the same thing you're accusing me of! the trail of periods denoted a pause then I continued.
There's people of all skill ranges that'll abuse the benefits of the glider, and the amount of gliders I see, and the millions killed across the systems can attest to that. Saying they often won't is wrong. You're the one that said they often won't use gliders.
"Glider/Mightys are less frequently played by the higher tier of players and this is not a coincidence."
I don't beleive that for a moment.

I play on console, PS3, so there's no mouse useage. It says this much, I hope, in my sig, unless I didin't make it obvious enough.

Jumping? Jumping fails spectacularly even as a nimble with better jumping than most. They must be shooting my legs, or bumping the stick to finish me off coz I die when I jump same as when I'm not jumping. A person jumping in front of me dies just as easy as if they weren't jumping. Maybe more so coz they have to adjust their aim for the change in altitude.
Jump to avoid a dive bomb? Yeah, I don't see that working well. Not without a gadget aiding me, and even then it's risky.

While the person is attacking me from behind, and I turn to deal with it, I'll likely get dive bombed. They like using their speed, silence, and high altitude to nail you when you aren't looking, and dealing with other hazards. Especially so when you're a smaller body type.

As for the boomerang, the utility is undeniable, yes, and I've never denied it's utility! Still, I'm sorry you've never had this item fail you. I've missed gliders with it more than once, and I've seen it veer off target so bad it smashed into an obstacle well off to the side, or smash into the ground, and vanish despite being locked on to a target. It's not as reliable as you make it sound. If your boomerang locks on, and always hits, good for you! Mine must be broken?

What you fail to understand is that the difficulty of a counter DOES NOT negate the fact that it is still indeed a counter. Regardless of how challenging a counter can be; if it is indeed a viable counter it is worth learning.

Oh, it's indeed a counter! The problem is the risks of these counters often doesn't stand up well to the rewards of what it counters in this case. That's the problem!

Reward? You kill someone, or put them in a very good position to be killed just after. Risk? You're stunned. You can still move, you can still fight back, and the odds of survival are higher than the person you've just flattened through their counter.

I came here to, hopefully, learn new, and inventive ways to kill a dive bomber. To make them risk their lives trying to kill me more often while actually participating in the fight against everyone else.

I just get "Use ASD/Hatchet/Boomerang/A gun to shoot them!" and frankly none of these are reliable. Viable? Sure, but reliable? Not in my experience.

Rollerskates? Not a fan of them surprisngly. Hitting a fast moving target while moving that quickly isn't my forte, and gettign hit while on them makes me a sitting duck coz I lose forward momentum.

NSB? Mastered it. Can I please move on and use another gadget?

Goggles? Mastered those, too. Likewise, I'd like to make progress with other gadgets.

Spring Shoes? I'm experimenting with these! It's showing some promise provided you've got decent timing. Better still if you've deployed a support item (bear trap, toxic gas. I don't recommend a trap in the box unless you have the HP to survive it's blast.).
try to land out of their sight while they're looking for you, and pray there's not a sharpshooter, or another divebomber to blast you out of the air, or when you land.

Like I said, I'm looking into other gadgets (I.E. Spring shoes) to satiate my need for not being divebombed often. If I find anything, I'll be sure to share it.

Closest thing to new info I've seen is staying near a pole/obstacle which doesn't help me when I'm going to fight the other team, and am on the move, using that lovely speed of mine to avoid standing still and being shot to death instantly by everyone else.
So you might survive the dive bomb, the odds of coming out of the experience alive drop sharply when they knife you, or spray you with a jackhammer, or shredder. That ability to attack instantly when they land is nasty as I'm sure many of the millions divebombed can attest to.

So, yeah, I came here looking for help. If it seems like i'm fighting it, it's because I'm trying to warn people of the downfalls of each counter, and am hoping for something that's more reliable than what I've used before. I'm giving my very valid data as an average player, or even a bad player because we count, too! We need the reliable counters.

It shouldn't be too easy, no, but it should still make the risk/reward remotely even.


And RentoNM? You make sense!

[Asheki]

You may claim they're not reliable.. but that's for you.. you don't seem to make them work as well as they could. To be frank, I'm not saying you're using goggles 24/7, also I'm not saying you can't get close.. but from the looks of it.. you're running at them head on.

I have never played any body type other then nimble.. kind of stupid but its also because its the only body type that's my gender just like you. I tried Mighty body type in ONE game.. then switched immediately after dying because of how sick I felt at how slow he was moving lol.

Now, I've been using the hatched for... 2-3 days now, I just unlocked it because I was curious and it became my new found love. It doesn't take an uber aimer to be able to get kills with the axe, its the same thing as aiming any other gun when it comes for dive bombers because they're coming straight for you. So what if you died to the 5 others that are dive bombing you? Just sit back and ponder this scene for a moment.. It took 6 mighty body types... all dive bombing you... to kill you and you took one of them down with you with no effort at all.

You actually should be proud that they're trying so hard to kill you. Its what I do every time I get ganged up on after killing a few guys, I sit back and smile thinking that it took 3 of them all shooting at me to take out one nimble girl..

The only thing that someone has to take in consideration with throwing a hatchet is the effect gravity has on it ( and after a long distance bad game physics that makes it drop down quickly ). You can hit people you don't even see by throwing it in an area where there's a lot of traffic. I can't say much about the boomerang as I've never used it.. I don't have a need for it.

If you're using nimble body type and shotgun, don't charge them head on, because the Persuader sucks compared to an smg or AR if the target is fully healed because of the time it takes to eject a shell from it after each shot. There's also plenty of places on the sides of these maps and near points that are safe from dive bombers in the air.. like the small areas in crime alley with partly opened doors.

Here's a trick you can do without a specific loadout, as long as you have a gun with medium range ( like the gatekeeper ). Once you spot a glider rig mighty in the air looking around for his next prey, get someplace where its easy to hide behind cover or indoors where they can't see you from where they are.. Once they're close enough and oblivious that you're there.. Shoot at them... its not hard and I'm not telling you to kill them in one clip or to empty that clip.. Just make enough damage that it'll piss him off..

now there's 3 things he can do, 1 he'll ignore you and keep going toward the nearest air vent.. in which case you did your job and he's weakened for the next guy who'll shoot at him. If you're feeling adventurous you can already guess he'll want to heal himself so he'll head to a resupply station.. head there.. and surprise him while he's grounded and oblivious of your presence ( he mighty! he scare tiny people!~ ah.. fat chance.. fat.. get it? )

2- Smart players will actually give up on air time and drop to the ground immediately to avoid being open to direct fire and look for the threat.. In this case... it's going to be harder but he's grounded so you've done part of your job now you just need to finish him off before he finds you.. use your wits.. speed and shotgun to finish off what remains of his health.

3- Not so smart players will start turning around to look for what shot them in the hopes of dive bombing them.. but you are near a place where you can hide yourself while monitoring his movements.. if need be and then hide or run if he spots you. Now.. while the guy's looking for you hoping to kill you he's losing air time, and as he's losing air time.. he won't be able to get to the next vent so he'll end up falling on the ground at some point.. he also makes himself very vulnerable to anyone in the nearby area while he's looking around. If he passes you.. then I'd say that the boomerang could help as you nail him behind the head when he's not dive bombing ( in which case he'll fall out of the skies and be easy picking as you're behind him ). If he waits too long he'll have to land on the ground in a place he hadn't planned for since he was looking for you in the first place ( and likely not looking where he went ). Turning around when flying is also very floaty and not really quick so he doesn't have all that much mobility while he's losing time trying to look for you.

One the note of Spring boots, once you got the timing right ( as unlady like as it is ) try to use the almighty can o' beans right before you jump out of the way.. why? because he'll dive bomb right into it and will be vulnerable to you.. and best of all you'll likely land on his head if you jumped while standing still.. for a good 70 damage I believe while being nimble body type. + the 50's he takes from the gas + the shotgun to the face you'll give him.

[Rebel_Raven]

Ah, this, this, Asheki is the kind of help I was looking for! THANK YOU! :3 A-typical advice that's learned from experience!

And no it's not stupid to only wanna be the nimble coz you're a woman! No more stupid than the guys not buying games where they have to be a female. :P

I have done that toxic gas, then spring boot out of the way trick with some success, and one hillarious kill stomping a gassed dive bomber and killing him. Unfortunately it's short lived most times as their backup is near by ready to kill you. Ah well. It helps. It's not the typical answers either.

And yeah, I do take a smidge of pride that I need a small army of larger people trying to kill me to get the job done. Unfortunately I don't think a lot of others can say the same.

[Asheki]

Well the thing is... no one is meant to survive a 'team' of enemies taking them head on. It doesn't matter if there's 5 guys dive bombing you, or 5 guys shooting you.. you're going to die either way unless you can get out of dodge fast. ( or in the later case all five people apparently can't aim straight for some weird reason ). So the best way to see it is that if you manage to kill the dive bomber its 1 kill for 1 death, not a bad trade off and all that time they were busy with you while your team is ( hopefully ) doing important things.

And if the enemy looks specifically for nimbles or speedies to shoot, then they're ignoring the guys with the big hps and the big guns ( sometimes ) that'll make their lives a miserable hell since they're likely wounded after killing you.

Another thing of note, killing a mighty with a hatchet should be about the same timing then using the spring boots to jump over him. basically throwing it right when he starts his dive ( depending on his height difference from you. And granted you don't give him the chance to be right above you*.. I... actually never tried to shoot a hatchet right above me.. I.. suddenly have the urge to try... ) he should run straight into it and make a nice blotch of lard on the pavement when he falls.

Ninja smoke bombs are actually one of the best ways to avoid dive bombers.. Not only is their field of view very limited.. but they also hardly ever look for signs of cloaked people.. not sure if I mentioned this before. Of course you can't say ' well I was shooting someone and he dive bombed me! ' nothing can really counter people sneaking up on you when you're already busy with someone else.. no matter the loadout or weapon/gadget put in question.

[Rebel_Raven]

Well the thing is... no one is meant to survive a 'team' of enemies taking them head on. It doesn't matter if there's 5 guys dive bombing you, or 5 guys shooting you.. you're going to die either way unless you can get out of dodge fast. ( or in the later case all five people apparently can't aim straight for some weird reason ). So the best way to see it is that if you manage to kill the dive bomber its 1 kill for 1 death, not a bad trade off and all that time they were busy with you while your team is ( hopefully ) doing important things.

And if the enemy looks specifically for nimbles or speedies to shoot, then they're ignoring the guys with the big hps and the big guns ( sometimes ) that'll make their lives a miserable hell since they're likely wounded after killing you.

Another thing of note, killing a mighty with a hatchet should be about the same timing then using the spring boots to jump over him. basically throwing it right when he starts his dive ( depending on his height difference from you. And granted you don't give him the chance to be right above you*.. I... actually never tried to shoot a hatchet right above me.. I.. suddenly have the urge to try... ) he should run straight into it and make a nice blotch of lard on the pavement when he falls.

Ninja smoke bombs are actually one of the best ways to avoid dive bombers.. Not only is their field of view very limited.. but they also hardly ever look for signs of cloaked people.. not sure if I mentioned this before. Of course you can't say ' well I was shooting someone and he dive bombed me! ' nothing can really counter people sneaking up on you when you're already busy with someone else.. no matter the loadout or weapon/gadget put in question.

I can't count how many times I accidently stumbled on the entire enemy team in one spot, and was lucky to get out alive! And- HOLY HECK! Is that you I just fought on ps3 in a one on one duel in Gotham power?

Damn good job in mauling me 10 to 3! lol

... I lost my train of thought. lol

[STFUppercut]

There is not one valid argument in this post, attacking me won't help your point either...
So what you're saying is that the only reason to use the counters you suggested is going for a challenge?
And if i want to have a good K/D im better of running the setups your trying to counter.
Sounds like a definition of a bad balance in a video game xD

This whole mighty+glider discussion seems to always work out the same way:
At first both sides give arguments, but sooner or later the pro mighty side runs out of arguments and starts saing "your just to bad to counter them! stop crying and learn to play blablabla!"
So just to get this out of the way, so we can all go back to discuss like adults here:
My K/D in TDM is 2.4 and I'm on rank 6 on the Fumigation leaderboards (PC) having less than 100 dive bomb kills, so me complaining about the mighty+glider is not whining because I can't beat them, its just a objective observation.

What you just don't seem to understand is that balance is not about a good player still beeing able to beat a bad player but about how much closer the bad player comes to the good players success by abusing a game mecanic and how easy this makes it for him to ruin other bad players fun.

Are you reading what im posting or are you cognitively impaired? "So what you're saying is that the only reason to use the counters you suggested is going for a challenge?" Wrong. By countering you are giving yourself an advantage, unless you struggle with said counter and it doesnt suit your playstyle... given all the options to counter a mighty, one or more would suit your playstyle - your original argument that "difficult counters are less viable because they are harder than the class you are countering" is ALSO wrong... there is a learning curve to all aspects of gaming - I personally struggle with sniping in this game, so I avoid it and find other ways to counter players that dont involve a sniping build, however every other aspect of this game I stuck with (including becomming proficient with the hatchet) and now they are viable for me and arent hard... things become less difficult with time - if that is not an investment that you are willing to make, simply make a mirror class to the one you intend to counter and outplay the other guy.

"This whole mighty+glider discussion seems to always work out the same way:
At first both sides give arguments, but sooner or later the pro mighty side runs out of arguments and starts saing "your just to bad to counter them! stop crying and learn to play blablabla!" Wrong. Initially people who do not struggle with gliders post options to overcome the build and people who are actually looking for help add to the conversation... eventually people who do not want to build on their weaknesses jump in and start trying to blame one loadout for theyre short-comings... I dont play as a mighty/glider, and I dont struggle with them at all. As I stated before they are the EASIEST class for me to counter - so either im lying (if you think I am than why bother conversing at all?) or im really not struggling with them and could help you out... no?


"What you just don't seem to understand is that balance is not about a good player still beeing able to beat a bad player but about how much closer the bad player comes to the good players success by abusing a game mecanic" I couldnt agree more, but there is no overpowered mechanic here or a mechanic being abused... it just so happens that the glider is more oftenly used than other gadgets and people are falling victim to their confirmation bias. The glider really doesnt get you around the map faster than other gadgets... its really not that great indoors... and on most maps it binds you to a track... making most of your movements rather predictible. The grapple gun also does dmg and Doesnt Bind you to a path... The inflatable insoles (best gadget atm in my eyes) are COMPLETELY unpredictable, can be used for fast stomp kills (insta kill - more powerful than the dive bomb) and CONSTATLY keep the fight in the users favor, shotgun rolls up on you? Air strafe backwards to avoid initial damage and put distance between your enemy to reduce his HUGE close combat damage while dominating him from above. SMG on you while you have a shotty? Air strafe towards him to close the gap while evading a lot of his shots for a quick kill... Rollerskates can be used for ramp kills, they keep their effectiveness indoors and IMO make the player more mobile than the glider IF he/she understands the maps and its shortcuts, they also dont put you up in the air where you are a target for everyone whose aware.

The fact of the matter is that the glider rig is balanced... meaning it probably wont be nerfed, and it certainly isnt going anywhere. So its better to truly learn to counter it than to whine about it being unbalanced or abused.

[STFUppercut]

@ Rebel...

"And YES! FFS I AM NOT A GREAT PLAYER! And honestly, you're disregarding the valid input from people who aren't all that good enough to blast a glider out of the sky!" Then thats it... there is no more point in debating - you arent as good as other players, and that is your issue... It has nothing to do with balancing issues or what game mechanics are broken - you acknowledge that you arent the best, so thats it. You cant competently play the counters so it is what it is right? I admire the fact that you can admit you arent the best (not many can) but try to push it one step further... "Maybe im not able to counter these players because they are solid players - and im not?" You sound like an alright kid, keep at it and im sure you will catch on man.

[TheMask]

Dear Rebel Raven... When trying to kill mightys with smaller classes act more like a theif in the night instead of a good soldier.

If that makes any sense.

[Skaarjonic]

This thread is getting a little... nasty. Closing this one down, folks.