IDEA: fast support item recharge for speedy/nimble

[lauren12]

Following on from another thread, it occured to me that a way to help counterbalance some advantages that burlies/mighties have, would be for speedy/nimble characters to have support items like hatchets/boomerangs/traps etc recharge quicker than mighties.

It kinda makes sense that the more dexterous body types would be able to deploy such items quicker, and as long as it wasn't a superfast recharge it would give a real benifit to players staying away from the classic mighty/armour/horse healthy/hard target/glider set-up.

Thoughts? Good or bad idea?

[Boa_Noah]

Good idea, it seems like too much in the game is geared towards benefiting the big body types and this would at least give the smaller types an actual benefit to offensive gadgets.

[Olessius]

Might be a good idea. The Hatchet can, of course, be picked up, but other support items such as the Boomerang lose a lot of value because of long recharge timers, which can be lethal when you're playing a very fragile Speedy.

[Zenigma]

Yeeeeeeeheeheeheeeeee...!!
I like the idea, but would it be overpowered in practice?

[Olessius]

Yeeeeeeeheeheeheeeeee...!!
I like the idea, but would it be overpowered in practice?

Well, that depends on how big the bonus is, of course. I don't think it has to be, though. The Speedy can be powerful in the right hands, but we all know that it is somewhat disadvantaged in regards to other classes.

[Rebel_Raven]

I'd love -anything- that helps light builds cover gaps in weaknesses like the mighty and burly can, bluntly, and truely helps them more than it does the, well, fat side.

You'll have to pardon my rant. X( I get passionate about this sort of thing. Here goes.

A mighty gets to cover up their speed deficientcy with glider rigs, skates, etc., and completely cover their head size problem with hard target, AND play to their strengths (Boosting their HP and defense with horse healthy and armor, AND effortlessly carry heavy weapons) all in one loadout! Small wonder they largely stick to a typical loadout? It nullifies almost every weakness save their damned size, and how slow they are when they're blasting people.

That doesn't even count the perks they get like being able to kill most everyone in one hit with knives, dive bombs, stomps, and what not. So what if they're huge targets?! If they soak up the damage long enough to kill you, or have someone else kill you it doesn't matter much.

A mighty obviously benefits the most from having a motivator, since they have the HP to tank, and the motivator puts the HP back. Try motivating a speedy, or a nimble vs enemies with heavy weapons? It sure won't have the same results. their smaller frame is less cover for the motivator user, and their HP'll get depleted really quickly since they have far far less. Their speed is harder to keep up with, too!

I'm sorry, but being "fast" and "small" (Nimbles are surprisngly tall, so that doesn't help much) isn't cutting it in terms of balance perk for perk, in my view, coz we honestly don't get much more than that.

Sure we can go faster on the ground, and we can crouch to get smaller, but really? Where's our weapon benefits to balance the fat side's? Or ANY truly unique benefit? They can match for speed in the air, or severely make up for the deficit with other gadgets. They have enough HP and defense to make their size less relevant than it aughta be.

Sure we can go blazing fast on rollerskates, but heaven help anyone shot while using them! Their momentum is stopped, and they're pushed around, and less able to move making them an easier target!

A nimble jumps the best! Defensively it doesn't help. I've jumped over someone's weapon and still died coz they shot me. Lag really kills the jump benefit for me! It's not like a huge person can't fly most anywhere a nimble can jump! Or use a grapple gun! Or spring boots?... forget it, they just use the glider. It gets them most anywhere, and it's devastating when diving.

Yes, we can boomerang them, or ASD them but they can dive into an ASD and still have a chance to kill anyone near by! And even while stunned they can mow down people who're in front of them, or lagging enough that they're in the line of fire even when they're strafing!

Sure we can use a hatchet, just like everyone else (So much for being unique?), which is only advantagious vs the larger fat side. That makes up for, hm, the ability to kill us instantly with a knife, buuut we have to give up body armor! Or energy drink! YAY! Our survivability goes down even MORE! AND WE HAVE TO GET CLOSE TO USE THE HATCHET!! Doesn't that play to the fat side's benefit? If they see us, they can pretty much kill us when we use it. If not, then we could've used near anything to kill them anyhow. The hatchet is just faster, but can miss, of course.

Oh, snipe the fat guys! Shoot them in the head!! ... *points at Hard target negating the head shot, and their HP allowing them to take more than one body shot... then points at the fact a fat sider can EASILY snipe back, and is more likely to kill thanks to the light side's HP.*

NSB? Sure we can use that, but honestly, we gotta sneak up on fat siders anyhow!! Not a huge amount of benefit there.

So where's the rest of the stuff we're supposed to have to be balanced with a mighty's massive amount of perks?

Anything the light side can do the fat side can do better, just as well, or damn near as well, even if they might need a gadget to do it. The light side really can't say the same for the most part.

tl/dr: Fat siders can make up for most any cons they have, and do most things as well as a skinny person while the latter lack truely unique, truely practical combat benefits.

I can kill mightys, I'm not saying they're OP (More annoying than anything), I just see a lack of true balance perk for perk.

[Boa_Noah]

I just see a lack of true balance perk for perk.

Too true, not to mention that the gadgets that the smaller bodies need give better boosts to the bigger bodies, so any gadget that the smaller body can use the bigger body can use better.

[younghoff]

Still the same people crying about balance, lol.

[Olessius]

I'd love -anything- that helps light builds cover gaps in weaknesses like the mighty and burly can, bluntly, and truely helps them more than it does the, well, fat side.

You'll have to pardon my rant. X( I get passionate about this sort of thing. Here goes.

A mighty gets to cover up their speed deficientcy with glider rigs, skates, etc., and completely cover their head size problem with hard target, AND play to their strengths (Boosting their HP and defense with horse healthy and armor, AND effortlessly carry heavy weapons) all in one loadout! Small wonder they largely stick to a typical loadout? It nullifies almost every weakness save their damned size, and how slow they are when they're blasting people.

That doesn't even count the perks they get like being able to kill most everyone in one hit with knives, dive bombs, stomps, and what not. So what if they're huge targets?! If they soak up the damage long enough to kill you, or have someone else kill you it doesn't matter much.

A mighty obviously benefits the most from having a motivator, since they have the HP to tank, and the motivator puts the HP back. Try motivating a speedy, or a nimble vs enemies with heavy weapons? It sure won't have the same results. their smaller frame is less cover for the motivator user, and their HP'll get depleted really quickly since they have far far less. Their speed is harder to keep up with, too!

I'm sorry, but being "fast" and "small" (Nimbles are surprisngly tall, so that doesn't help much) isn't cutting it in terms of balance perk for perk, in my view, coz we honestly don't get much more than that.

Sure we can go faster on the ground, and we can crouch to get smaller, but really? Where's our weapon benefits to balance the fat side's? Or ANY truly unique benefit? They can match for speed in the air, or severely make up for the deficit with other gadgets. They have enough HP and defense to make their size less relevant than it aughta be.

Sure we can go blazing fast on rollerskates, but heaven help anyone shot while using them! Their momentum is stopped, and they're pushed around, and less able to move making them an easier target!

A nimble jumps the best! Defensively it doesn't help. I've jumped over someone's weapon and still died coz they shot me. Lag really kills the jump benefit for me! It's not like a huge person can't fly most anywhere a nimble can jump! Or use a grapple gun! Or spring boots?... forget it, they just use the glider. It gets them most anywhere, and it's devastating when diving.

Yes, we can boomerang them, or ASD them but they can dive into an ASD and still have a chance to kill anyone near by! And even while stunned they can mow down people who're in front of them, or lagging enough that they're in the line of fire even when they're strafing!

Sure we can use a hatchet, just like everyone else (So much for being unique?), which is only advantagious vs the larger fat side. That makes up for, hm, the ability to kill us instantly with a knife, buuut we have to give up body armor! Or energy drink! YAY! Our survivability goes down even MORE! AND WE HAVE TO GET CLOSE TO USE THE HATCHET!! Doesn't that play to the fat side's benefit?

Oh, snipe the fat guys! Shoot them in the head!! ... *points at Hard target negating the head shot, and their HP allowing them to take more than one body shot... then points at the fact a fat sider can EASILY snipe back, and is more likely to kill thanks to the light side's HP.*

NSB? Sure we can use that, but honestly, we gotta sneak up on fat siders anyhow!! Not a huge amount of benefit there.

So where's the rest of the stuff we're supposed to have to be balanced with a mighty's massive amount of perks?

Anything the light side can do the fat side can do better, just as well, or damn near as well, even if they might need a gadget to do it. The light side really can't say the same for the most part.

tl/dr: Fat siders can make up for most any cons they have, and do most things as well as a skinny person while the latter lack truely unique, truely practical combat benefits.

I can kill mightys, I'm not saying they're OP (More annoying than anything), I just see a lack of true balance perk for perk.

This. So much this. I stopped using the Hatchet in a few games and for the first time realized just how unkillable a Mighty can be. I can come out nowhere and empty an entire Desperado (pen. rounds) clip into him and he'll simply turn around and pop me like a ripe zit. So back to the Hatchet I go.

[Boa_Noah]

Still the same people crying about balance, lol.

What is with you? you see any kind of anything involving any kind of change to the game and you immediately resort to some sort of negative stance, you didn't even read the subject, did you?

What's wrong with this? what would this kind of change break? nothing, it would break nothing and it would change nothing for the larger bodies.